CHRIS PRATT: We have a wonderful guest today. She is an author and entrepreneur and a feminist on a mission to end inequality through financial well being. She’s been featured on Forbes, NBC, Glamour and The New York Times, among other places. Her name is Ashley Feinstein Gerstley. Welcome to the show, Ashley. How are you?

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: I’m doing well. Thank you so much for having me.

 CHRIS PRATT: Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on. Um, I’d like to start the show by getting to know a little bit about you. So who is Ashley Feinstein Gerstley? Can you talk about your childhood, your experience growing up and how that led to where you are today and your goals today?

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Yeah. It’s a big question.so I don’t want to take the whole time at all. You let me know parts that are interesting that I could dive into. But I grew up in Florida, um, originally in Miami and then over to Naples, Florida. I have two entrepreneurial parents, which I think definitely influenced the path that I took, um, they had their own businesses paved their own way. Um,

 CHRIS PRATT: What kind of business do they have?

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: My mom is a therapist, but she works with athletes, um, with their mental game and then has a podcast all about parenting athletes. Because my sister and I were athletes. I was a horseback rider. And my sister played basketball. And then my dad is…

CHRIS PRATT: You’re a horseback rider?


 CHRIS PRATT: There’s a lot of awesome stuff here. Okay, keep going. Sorry.

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Dressage, very little people do know about it, but it’s kind of like ballet on horseback. The horses do ballet, and so I ..

 CHRIS PRATT: Wait, What? How do horses do ballet? What do you mean like they do some kind of dancing?

ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: It’s like dancing, especially at the upper levels. It looks so beautiful and it looks very effortless, but it’s a lot of work.

 CHRIS PRATT: I have to look this up now. What is it called?


 CHRIS PRATT: Dressage. So how do you spell that?


 CHRIS PRATT: Okay. All right. We’ll have to look that up.

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Yeah, know. They had that in junior olympics. And I didn’t make it. Unfortunately, I was very close. Well, a lot of my childhood was training.

 CHRIS PRATT: Wow. So I mean, you still must have been really good, though,if you were close to getting to the Junior Olympics, right?

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Yeah, and it is a very technical sport. So at that time, there weren’t that many young people like there. It wasn’t as popular as jumping or things that are Looks, so inviting so it was a very unique thing to be spending my time doing.

 CHRIS PRATT:  Is it a thing where,like, judges, score you based on how well you perform?

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Yes. So judges score you depending on the competition and the test there could be one or more judges all around the ring, and you do either a prescribed test or there was a different. There was something called Freestyle where you actually choreographed a performance to music. Which was really fun.

 CHRIS PRATT: Wow, that sounds awesome. And then so your parents are entrepreneurs. And your mom, you said was a therapist. And she trained athletes.

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Yes. So she is trained as a therapist, she’s actually getting her PhD now. And she’s super awesome.

CHRIS PRATT: Oh good for her.

ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: I know and so she basically helps athletes and also parents of athletes on the mental side of the game.

 CHRIS PRATT: So what does that look like? Because, you know, I am really big advocate for mental health. I think that everyone who needs it should feel comfortable and have access to resources for mental health. And I think a lot of people don’t even know what a therapist does. So what kind of things does and also this is a personal finance show. So it also does tie into personal finance very closely because, you know, if I’ve had days where I felt really down and I thought that Oh, if I spend some money on something stupid, I’ll feel better. But, you know, you feel better for 30 minutes than go back to problems. That’s another tangent. But, um, yeah, can you talk a little bit about what she does to actually help athletes causing a lot of people don’t even know what therapists do?

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Yeah, so She had and still does have a more traditional therapy practice where she works with people, whether they’re experiencing anxiety or eating disorders or whatever they’re dealing with. And then for the athletes in particular. Of course, other things come up. But from what I understand, It’s like if you are experiencing, if you’re not performing at your peak because of some mental aspect of your game. Whether that’s nerves, performance, anxiety. Maybe you need some visualization. So all these different techniques to help athletes perform better because there is a lot of pressure on the big game or that 32nd performance, depending on that on the type of athlete. And I do think, having her, she went through school as I was growing up. And so she always had these awesome psychology books all around, and I would like to power them. And I think that is a big part of my personal finance work is having this emotional behavioral psychological aspect to money that I definitely focused on because the numbers themselves are actually pretty simple. It’s the emotional behavioral sides that can really trip us up.

 CHRIS PRATT: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So you were a.. I won’t even try to pronounce it .. a horseback rider through high school?


 CHRIS PRATT: Then you, we talked a little bit before the show about college. Where’d you go to college?

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: I went to Tulane, actually. And then after Hurricane Katrina, I transferred to Penn.

 CHRIS PRATT: Oh, she went to Tulane for Oh, wow. And then


 CHRIS PRATT: Yeah. Wow. So how did you transfer to? Because a lot of people who probably watch us are probably in college and thinking about college. Um, one of the questions I get a lot is about transferring schools. I go to Penn State University, where transferring is actually pretty common because a lot of people transfer from other campuses. So what was that experience, like for you?

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: It’s actually kind of a crazy story. So after Tulane shutdown because of the Hurricane um, 42 sister schools, I think it was 42 opened up their doors so that students could have a place to get educated during that semester, and they waive tuition so that Tulane could keep the money, which was generous so they could rebuild because the school was devastated and they wanted most of the schools wanted you to be very local so that they didn’t have to provide housing because this happened when some schools had already started . Some were about to start, so they really didn’t have extra housing to house. These Tulane students um, and I Really I almost one of my other choices and colleges was the University of Miami, and so I called them to see if I could go there during my guest semester. And they were like, You’re too far away. So thinking about living at home again after being on my own, just like one. You’re out. I really wanted to see if there was a way that I could do something else. And so I actually applied to go to Penn. Um, I wasn’t aware that the business school was so great. And then I got there And, um, so long story short it is. It’s a cool story, but it’s very long, but I, um I went there, I loved it. I and so I Actually, it was unique because I transferred once. I was already there as a student. Um, but it was also a difficult process because, like I was very torn. I didn’t want to jump ship on Tulane, but I also was really loving this program and met on new friends. And so…

 CHRIS PRATT: Yeah so, I think a lot of people would worry about, like one leaving the friends that they just made. Um, uh, at the school that they’re leaving and two making new friends at a new school. So it sounds like you had a pretty positive experience with that, right?

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: I did. And I think that that’s another transfer. Worry is freshman year. Everybody’s really into meeting friends because no one knows each other and then coming into a school as, ah sophomore or beyond you people are you might be afraid that people are less. They have their friends already. They might be less friendly. Penn actually had my sorority that I was in in Tulane. So that was nice. It was like a sisterhood, right from the get go that I could go to those meetings and they were so supportive because I also had no clothes, because all my clothes were at Tulane, So they were giving me clothes and making sure I was ok and how to get around campus and find housing. And, um so I think that helped a lot is having that network of friends to begin with.

 CHRIS PRATT: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I I thought about, um, transferring, but I just could not for me leave the people I love. And what was your major?

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: So, um, at Penn it was Finance.

 CHRIS PRATT: At Penn. It was Finance. Was it different at Tulane?

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: At Tulane, you actually couldn’t be a business. You had to apply to be a business major, either. Your sophomore or junior year.


 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: I Was on psych doing business, dual major. But I was at that point only psychology major, because you couldn’t. Yeah.

 CHRIS PRATT: Oh, So you’re psychology, major?


 CHRIS PRATT: And then you went. So you went to Penn, and you drop this whole psychology, and you just did Finance.

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Yes, that’s so basically, when I got to Penn, um, it was interesting to see what classes transfer over. And when I ended up getting into the business school to study finance, it was I would basically just had enough time to get all of my required credits. So I did take for my elective some psychology classes, but I would have had to stay at school longer in order to do the dual I could study abroad. There are things that I am just I had to do. Summer school just really doubled down on getting the credits for the finance, major.

 CHRIS PRATT: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um and I mean, I commend people who can do a double major. I don’t know how it depends on the major’s you’re doing too. But for some, some people do crazy double majors. And I’m just like, why? Hey. Props to you, um,

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: I’m just not really into the idea of me staying longer. Yeah.

 CHRIS PRATT: People. Yeah. You stay longer. More than more than four or five. Some people stay, you know, even six years or so, then you

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: I Could have done more classes. I just was like, That does not seem feasible for me. Yeah.

 CHRIS PRATT: Yeah, I totally get that. Um And so then you graduated. Did you go to graduate school?

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: I didn’t. I graduated. And then I went. I moved to New York City to become an investment banker.

 CHRIS PRATT: An investment banker. What firm?


 CHRIS PRATT: Jefferies. Wow. Okay, so you moved to become an investment Banker at. Jeffries so are you an investment banker anymore?

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: No, I did that for two years. Two years then I went into corporate finance.

 CHRIS PRATT: Corporate finance. So what does that mean? Well, first of all, what is an investment banker and what is corporate finance? Just quickly. Nobody. Not even new people who do know it

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Nobody really knew what I did. So basically I at Jefferies. first I was a generalist, so I got to work on all different teams so we could work in an industry team. So I ended up in the industrial group, So I covered industrial companies and that meant I could do all types of transactions with them. So if they were raising debt, if they were buying another company, if they’re getting if they were merging, if they were gonna raise some equity or do an IPO as long as it was an industrial company, I was working on that deal or someone in my group was. But then there’s also transactional groups like you could be in the M&A group. Or you could be in the Leverage finance group, which works on debt transactions, or in the equity group, which works on the different equity issuance. So I ended up in the industrial group, um, working with a lot of steel companies, equipment companies.

 CHRIS PRATT: You say transactions. What do you mean by transactions versus the deals that you did?

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: So they’re the same but it basically, if I’m in the M&A team, I’m on M&A deal. So any type of merger acquisition,


 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: With any industry. So I specialize in that type of transaction where I specialized in an industry that could be with different transactions.and The team’s work together. So if there was an industrial, um, merger, then I would work with the M&A team and the industrial team

 CHRIS PRATT: Got it. Okay. And so then you went on and then what did you do next?

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: So I ended up then working at it in corporate finance at an insurance company. And so the work, it was interesting. The work was, Um I was doing a lot of the same things. I did a lot of more financial planning for the company. So what is there what other budgets look like? What their projections look like. Um, but any transactions that happened at that company, we would be a part of that.

 CHRIS PRATT: Okay. Awesome. And then what brought you to where you are today? Where are you today?


 CHRIS PRATT: Yeah, fill in that space,

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Bring it all together. Basically studied finance in a really great business School.


 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Worked in finance. Knew nothing about my own money and when I was an investment banker. I made a really nice salary, got big bonuses, um, and worked a lot. So I didn’t really have time to spend any money. And then when I switched to my corporate finance job, I didn’t have those big bonuses anymore. I had a lot of free time because my life style was very different. I got out of the office at 6 -7 every day, and, um, I had been in your city for two years. Not really getting to do a lot of the things I wanted to do. Like the sightseeing, the classes, the events, the concerts

 CHRIS PRATT: Because you were working so much.

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Yes. So I worked a lot. Um, so I didn’t have time to spend money. And when I was making up for lost time in this new job, I had this feeling that I was spending way more than I was earning. Um, I had quit after I got my bonus. So I had that kind of buffer with me in my new job. And one day I looked at my account, and I had almost spent all of it. And I thought, this is completely unsustainable. If I want to stay in this job, I have to figure this money thing out. And, um, that kind of led me to start the journey that led to creating and founding the fiscal femme.

 CHRIS PRATT: Wow. Okay, so and can I ask how big the bonus was ?

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: It was, My second bonus was $70,000.

 CHRIS PRATT: Wow. And so you spend it all. How fast?

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: In a few months. There’s, like, probably 30 – 35,000 left after taxes. That actually hit your account, right? Yeah, it just dwindled because I had a break at, I  forget the months Exactly. But I had a break before I started working. So basically I was living on the bonus. And then once I started working, I was spending more than I could have afforded to on my new salary, and


 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Dwindled it all away.

 CHRIS PRATT: So then you started.the fiscal femme, the founder of the Fiscal femme. So what led you to start that? Because, Well, they’re I think they’re two. And I’ll let you speak on this because obviously you know better than I do, but I think there are two big components to it. One is kind of feminism and supporting women, and the other is the personal finance component to it. So what made, what Shaped your decision to bring those two things together into the fiscal femme.

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Yeah, So as I’m figuring this thing out, right, I tend to have some type a tendencies and just spread a bunch of books, started reading articles, sort of testing things out. And, um, I also have this thing where I have to do the thing that really scares me. Yeah, not because it’s the right. Usually it ends up being really great for my career business, but it just is the challenge that I have to face. So at the time it was writing about what I was learning on a blog, I was very terrified to have my voice out there because I thought, you know what? I don’t know what I’m talking about right now. Maybe I’m a horrible writer. And as I improve and learn where I’m gonna look back and feel like, so embarrassed by this, but I worked with a coach and I got over that fear. And I started writing about my money journey on the fiscal femme, a blog at that time. And I think what really what led to the company starting was the response to the blog that people started asking me for help. They’re like, Hey, I need help with this to, um, other websites were like, Could you write for us? We need more young women’s voices talking about money, and I’m like, Oh, this is a thing. Um, and we talked about this emotional behavioral side. How important it Was. So I decided to go get certified as a coach. So I went to a one year coaching program so that I could integrate that into my money educating and started seeing clients. Then I started noticing that I was saying because there’s so many hours in the day and coaching one on one is a bigger investment. And I was like, How do I make this available to more people? Um, and that’s when I created my first program, which is 30 day money funds And yeah, I’ve always been a feminist. I think the, um, at first, like definitely the mission was to make personal finance more fun and accessible because when I just found a lot of the resources were kind of daunting and boring and keeping me out of the club, they didn’t really want me to understand. Um, and I also found it hard to find. Resources that were unbiased, like people weren’t trying to sell me something.so that was something that I was passionate about. And I also, if I thought about my life, really, understanding money was something that gave me a lot of power and freedom because I was able to stay in this new job that I preferred. But I was making less money because I figured out the money side, and I was able to self fund my business and go run it full time because I had saved up enough money to do that. And so I viewed it as this really freeing and powerful tools that really understand it and and have control over it. So, um, and then I think probably the last election was where I got really passionate about the feminist part and ruled that, and that has become much more of a force in the brand because I do think that money is a really important part of our overall well being in our power and our choice, and that if women had more money that it would solve a lot of the problems we have in the world.

 CHRIS PRATT: Yeah, yeah, so and and that is a common theme, I think I had mentioned I had talked to Tory Dunlap, who’s really big women’s personal finance advocate. Um, an influencer And that was one of her things was like, it’s really helpful when you see women being successful with personal finance and how that has changed their lives as a woman, I imagine very helpful. Ah, to use that as a guide. And I’ve had people you know, come to me like, Hey, can I can a man of color actually become successful financially? I literally had someone DM me on Instagram and he said,Does investing in stocks Actually, work ?  does investing. Actually do anything like he basically was asking is what you’re selling real and I’m not selling anything for money at all. I’m just posting content information, and I was like. Yeah, it is, real. I’m doing it right now, so and so I think that seeing other people do it is really a big motivator. And other people who looked like you who share your beliefs to share your different things about you. Um,

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Representation really matters.

 CHRIS PRATT: Yeah, it does. So I absolutely love what you’re doing. And I’ll admit, I need to do more to really support young people of color. That’s definitely been one of my goals. Um, you know, I’m all for, uh, feminism, all for its supporting underrepresented minorities. Sometimes I just feel like, you know, I don’t really know how  and I think it’s important to remember that one of the easiest ways is to just lead by example. Um, and you don’t even need to be a big influence. Or like I have a nephew. He’s 11 years old. Yeah, he’s 11 years old now, and, uh, he looks up to me as a role model. My sister and my brother in law keep telling me, like, keep doing what you’re doing because your nephew is watching. And he absolutely loves it. Yeah. So,  yeah, you don’t need a huge platform. If you want one, you know, you can work towards it and get on and do great things, but you don’t need a huge platform to make a difference in the lives of people around you. I know that it’s, you know, you mentioned Trump, and, you know, in this day and age, it’s hard to stay. Ah, positive and stay encouraged and stay motivated. But we are making a difference. And we’ve made a lot of progress from just the past 50 years. Um, so, yeah, I think that’s that’s absolutely amazing. Um, so could you talk about your 30 day money cleanse program? Because I saw a little bit about this, and it looks really interesting. So I wanted to know. What is that about?

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Yeah, So it has a fun origin story. I basically knew I wanted to create this program, and it involved another fear of mine was actually being on camera, which is funny. So the course itself started out as just audio And then people were like Hey, can we like, actually see something? And so then I added slides. They’re like, No, we’d like to see you. So I added a video of me. Um, but it basically I got a bunch of my entrepreneur friends together, and I said, Hey, I’m gonna give you a lot of delicious food. Can you help me brainstorm what the snacks project is? And one of my good friends, he was sitting on the couch and He was texting like a lot. And I said, Hey, what are you doing? You’re supposed to be helping me. And he said, Oh, I had a cupcake. I have to confess this to my food cleanse group. Oh, tell me more about this food cleanse group because food and money are so similar that both really emotionally charged

 CHRIS PRATT: Oh, yeah,

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: And big industries, where a lot of people struggle with both. And so he introduced me to the person who ran the food cleanse she was. So it was such a cool framework. And so I kind of took all of the things I was seeing and saying over and over to my one on one clients and created a program through that lens of this food cleanse

 CHRIS PRATT: Awesome and I’m a little confused, so how did you get from you said that food and personal finance are Very emotional, right? And I totally agree. But how did you make that connection in the first place? Like because that doesn’t seem obvious to me that you would make, even though it sounds right after the fact. But how did you make that connection in the first place?

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: So accountability is really important, um, there’s some cool stats. Like, if we tell somebody we’re gonna do something, there’s a 65% chance that we’re actually to do that thing we committed to. That goes up to 95% when we actually have a check in with that person. So I didn’t know that stat at that time, but I did know that people coming together holding each other accountable around money like that his confession of the cupcake was kind of like a confession of I just didn’t impulse buy. And I feel terrible. And that confession is really important because or that sharing, because otherwise we get into that downward spiral you mentioned it earlier, where you think that you’re going to feel a certain way because you bought something like maybe you were told, You finally feel good enough, smart enough, cool enough By buying this thing, you might, if you’re lucky, get that feeling for a short time and then it goes away. And I think that’s when we get into that spending cycle. So if I could just, like, tell somebody I’m messed up now I can get back on the wagon and get back and have a team supporting me and that better spending. Um, so that’s kind of what resonated. It was like that feeling of failure on, like a diet budget analogy, I think is another really good one. If we have too much of it, we have a really restrictive diet. There’s no way we can go out to dinner or successfully. There’s Rick it and probably like as soon as we take a bite of cake will eat the whole cake. The same goes for money. So, um,I find there’s a lot of there’s so many parallels. If were a lot of times people are really succeeding in their money like they’re succeeding. Also in feeling healthy, because they’re doing it. They’re choosing foods based on loving themselves and what’s gonna feed them? What’s gonna feel good? Not like a restrictive. You can’t have this you’re horrible kind of thing.

 CHRIS PRATT: Yeah. Yeah. So what is the actual program? What do you do in the program?

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Yeah, so There. So the program started as, of course, and then it had a lot of success. The average person participants saves $950 during the 30 days, or 20% of their pretax income.

 CHRIS PRATT: That’s huge. 20%. That is huge. That’s awesome. Congratulations on that.

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Thank you. And the cool part that is really cool in itself. But it’s not like, it’s not actually like a juice cleanse where you don’t spend anything for a month, right?

 CHRIS PRATT: Right. You have to spend something

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Yeah and it’s actually not creating a new lifestyle. So the cool part is, maybe you don’t save all 950 every month going forward, but you see the large percentage of that forever. So it’s something that and we can retake it like people redo it all the time because it’s a money journey and we improve and get better and figure out new things in our lives change. And so, um, the results carry on long after the course. So we ended up turning it into a book that came out last January. Um, January 2019.

 CHRIS PRATT: Awesome, What’s the book called?

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Yeah, but basically what happens is the first the first week we strip out all frivolous spending as defined by you. Book is very. It’s a beautifully I think designed. It is

 CHRIS PRATT: Not defined by me but defined by the person doing it right.

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Yeah, by the person doing for sure. And people can go as strict as they want. That’s like a lot of the There’s no wrong way to do it. And I think that’s true for personal finances. There’s a million ways to do it that all work. Um, and then we strip out from the spending. Then we add things back to in based on our values, based on doing some different exercises to really get clear and honest about where our money is truly treating us. And then, um then after week three, we kind of ad in other people because we want to work on ourselves first, but then we can’t. We don’t live in a vacuum, so there’s people, places and things. They get the best of our spending. I call environmental toxins, mitigate those We talk about money parties, which are actually events that I’m holding every month now digitally, um, which is essentially a budgeting party. But spending time with your numbers and showing your money some love and building in that accountability. And so, by the end, you have this new lifestyle that you’re saving a lot more your feeling like you’re not restricting. You feel like most people report that they don’t even feel like they’re giving up anything because now they let go of the things that are not important and are really focusing on the spending that brings them the most joy.

 CHRIS PRATT: Yeah, and, um, like I think you, as you mentioned, one of the hard things about doing a diet, especially if you’re doing something more restrictive, is like those first few days or those first couple weeks where, um, you’re making a big change. And in terms of a diet, your body, sometimes I have died and many times in your body sometimes really doesn’t like it. Um, actually tried to start to diet. I think, like, three weeks ago, a Keto diet and I went from eating, like, 3 to 4000 calories a day to eating 1500 almost instantly. And it was a very bad idea because I was literally fainting. And I thought I was gonna have to go to the hospital during Corona virus. That’s how bad it was. and suddenly realized, OK, I need to do this a little bit more slowly. So, um, how much? And I think that’s also scary for a lot of people. Cause people, uh, know, that it’s not going to be easy, even if they’ve never even done it before, or they think that it’s not gonna be easy, even if they’ve never done it before. So how do you, um, like, sort of ease people into it? Cause it sounds like you’re saying stripped back to, um uh, essential, uh, spending, right.

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: For Seven days, and we also I recommend spending in cash because it feels so different to spend in cash than to swipe a credit card or hit a button on Amazon.

 CHRIS PRATT: I’m glad you said that. Yeah.

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Yeah, yeah, But some people. So this is the cool part about it is a lot of the direction is to know yourself because there are people that wants the money. If they take cash out of their count, it feels like monopoly money, and they spend it really quickly. And there’s others. Most of us actually feel more pain when we’re spending in cash. But there are people who would like Once it’s out, it’s all gone.

CHRIS PRATT: Oh that’s interesting.

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: So you have to know yourself. And I think I do think that we have a tendency, especially like very ambitious people,to take on these huge leaps. And then we inevitably mess up and we’re like, I’m a failure. It’s over. right? Um, so I do think if we take the approach where small steps are okay , it actually doesn’t have to be hard, because what’s cool is that you win. You got a small win and you can break it down. A small is you need to get the win, and I think the reason we want to take the lead as we want results. And we have this idea that when we take small steps are results will be linear, like I’m saving $5 a week. It’s gonna take me a million years to save up what I want to save. But our results are not incremental there exponential. Because as soon as you catch that bug, as you get that win, then your next step could be bigger, and then your next step is bigger, so I would make it. So it’s easy, like and with me to go back to the died analogy. It’s like, Okay, I’m gonna And I know Keto is like no refined, like no carbs, right?

 CHRIS PRATT: Yeah, it’s low, no carbs. Yup.

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Yeah, so, like maybe starting, have breakfast like I’m gonna have or cutting down the carbs at breakfast. You know, like, what are the small steps in one of, I don’t know if I know they have it building like they talk about like instead of going to the gym. Just start by putting on the gym shoes, get in the habit of putting on the gym shoes, and so I think it’s like being in for the long game and knowing and I do think it’s also, this is something that my mom talks about a lot, but it’s having a growth mindset versus a fixed mindset. So when we do make those mistakes, it’s not like, Oh, there I go again. I’m horrible with money or I’ll never be able to stick to a diet. It’s, um Oh, interesting, right? Try to take the judgment out of it. How? Where did this go wrong? Maybe it’s like I shouldn’t be on my computer at 10 p.m. Shopping. Like, What can I be doing instead? Maybe I’ll start reading. Um, maybe I’ll take a different way home from work if I always notice that I go into this store when I see something in the window. So trying to play detective a little bit and see if there’s ways to make it. So it’s easier for us to not repeat what we already did.

 CHRIS PRATT: Yeah, I’m glad you brought up growth mindset too, I mean you. And the funny thing is, you’re bringing up things. Um, that I, uh that you hear all the time from other personal finance people. And I think that I think for some people, like some people are very skeptical of that. They hear a lot of people saying to do something and they think that it might just be a fad or that you’re just trying to sell something. But in this case, for those of you listening, this is really important stuff. That’s why a lot of different people who have been successful with money are saying the same thing because that’s what works. And that’s what we know. Works. Microsoft, which is I don’t know if it’s the largest company right this second, but one of the largest companies in the world, CEO Satya Nadella. when he came in, his biggest thing was having a growth mindset versus a fixed mindset.and I think there’s a really big Ted talk about growth mindset. I think that’s what blew up the whole growth mindset versus fixed mindset discussion. And for me, it’s definitely one of the things that has changed my life is prescribing to this idea of a growth mindset as opposed to a fixed mindset. Um, so I’m really glad that you brought that up.

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: And it benefits every area of our lives which is just cool. It’s like our money journey. It’s not just related to money,

 CHRIS PRATT: Right? Exactly. And as you mentioned,  a lot of it. Most of it is emotional and and behavioral. And that’s why I was asking you like how does someone who maybe is very scared of or who is doing very poorly with money by their own standards, whatever that means. How do you motivate them to get started. And so it sounds like seven days is not a long time. That’s one week. I wouldn’t say it’s easy, but it’s manageable. It’s doable, right? And then

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: You can turn the steps because it’s basically I’m saying, Do what you want. Here’s some guidelines. But don’t make them hard. make them right on the border. Like what would feel like a win? You wanted to feel like a win, but you don’t want it to feel like it is a big leap.

 CHRIS PRATT: Yeah, Are you familiar with Dave Ramsey?


 CHRIS PRATT: Yeah, One of his. He has, like, the debt snowball. That’s one of the things he’s famous for, um and I Like I said, one of the, um uh Well, I won’t. I won’t go off on that tangent. But Dave Ramsey’s debt snowball his big things to start with your smallest debt and a lot of people. I’m very mathematical. I majored in computer science. Right? I took calculus and all that, and I took stat. And I love ah, statistics and numbers and looking at how do we absolutely optimized, perfectly optimized. Maximize every number, Right, But and so it even got me at first when I heard him say, Pay off your smallest debt first, right? Don’t worry about the interest rates or, uh, how much extra you’re gonna be paying an interest by paying the smallest ones first because it’s so emotional it’s such an emotional decision. And you are so right about that. Uh, like you mentioned cash. I started paying for things, um, with cash a couple months ago. And I had talked about this a little bit. Um ah. With Jeremy Scheider. And it really changed my view of how cash works and how money works, because when you swipe a credit card, it doesn’t even change the number in your bank account for at least a month if you pay off the whole thing. So you’re seeing that. It’s like if you went on a diet and you didn’t realize that you gain £10 until a month later, you’re gonna eat a ton If you don’t realize that you gain the weight until a lot later and you might not even associate that the reason why you gained weight, right?

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Right, that’s so true. There’s no feedback

 CHRIS PRATT: And so and yeah, I love your diet analogy, cause it really it really does. It really does tie in, and they are really connected. I had never thought of it that way. So that’s awesome. Um, and where are you on social media? I know you’re on Instagram. It’s @thefiscalfemme. Correct?

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Yes. Same handle on instagram is probably the most active. And then we’re on Twitter Facebook LinkedIn

 CHRIS PRATT: Awesome Twitter Facebook LinkedIn. And it’s @thefiscalfemme. thank you so much, Ashley, for coming on the show. I hope people listening were able to get just a little bit of insight from you. You have a ton of knowledge and insight to share. So, folks, make sure you check out all of their content and what they’re doing. Um and I wish you the best. Thank you so much.

 ASHLEY FEINSTEIN GERSTLEY: Thank you. Such a great conversation.


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